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Another US High School Shooting this week...

 
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xj900



Joined: 17 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Jan Thu 25, 2018 9:36 am    Post subject: Another US High School Shooting this week... Reply with quote

And this one didn't even make the headlines!!
Was it because only two pupils were killed? Or is it because everyone on both sides of the pond is just becoming so Anaethetised and accepting of this situations?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42797684
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Foxx



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PostPosted: Jan Fri 26, 2018 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

U.S. school shootings may be moving from shocking news, to so common place it barely counts as news. Definatly tragic, and you'd think with 24 hour news it would get mentioned, but it does happen way too often.
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PatrickPayne



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PostPosted: Jan Mon 29, 2018 5:33 am    Post subject: Re: Another US High School Shooting this week... Reply with quote

The day it happened I read it about it four scrolls down. Way below the fold. I think there's two reasons for it-

1) We have grown so accustomed to it that it doesn't shock anymore and isn't worth reporting. Mass shootings have taken a place next to traffic fatalities. Sad when it happens, but not exciting enough for the front page.

2) News outlets have found their goose laying the golden egg, and that is politics. They learned that dividing the populace and stirring hatred for the other side is the way to get people to return for more and more and more. The problem is it takes a constant barrage to fuel so much hatred since the majority of normal people don't naturally hate each other. So while the news outlet might want to put the story front and center, unfortunately they can't because the visitor could read that anywhere, and refraining from stirring hate even for a few minutes could spell doom for their readership.
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Quickfire



Joined: 24 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Feb Sun 04, 2018 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just as a side note,

Trump, in his "State of the Union" speech, made great mention of how America's previously weak immigration policies had resulted in murders and a couple of terrorist attacks during 2017, but that his (Trump's) stronger immigration proposals (ie the wall and immigration bans etc) would be the answer to solve the problem of those evil immigrants up to no good in the USA.

Ironic then that under Trump's watch 2 of the biggest mass shootings occurred at the hands of 2 US born citizens........and yet Trump made NO mention of these 2 events......which by a large margin happen to be the 2 single biggest man made tragedies of last year.
No policies on how to "fix" or attempt to "fix" the problem...........so Mr Trump.......and speech writer 30 year old Milller ..........what a dodge........don't mention the mass shootings......or the fact that immigrants were not to blame! no way
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Max5s



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PostPosted: Feb Sun 04, 2018 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be the last one to support much of anything from Trump, but he can't address every topic in the SOU address. There have been many comments pointing out his neglect of various subjects in the speech, and most of those have more long-term significance than school shootings. He has made it pretty clear that he won't support any gun control legislation, and nobody from either House of Congress (Republican or Democrat) has put forth any legislation addressing that type of crime other than gun control. So why would he talk about it???

The SOU address is somewhat of a farce anyway because Ford was the last POTUS to actually tell it like it is. All of our recent presidents have gone before Congress and tried to paint rosey pictures when the reality for the average citizen has been rather challenging. Your own post includes examples of the BS from this president, and he is far from the original prevaricator in chief.
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Last edited by Max5s on Feb Mon 05, 2018 11:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ric delCampo



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PostPosted: Feb Mon 05, 2018 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It did make the headlines.

The ones that don't make the headlines are the ones that don't involve white kids. I suppose because they don't fit the current politically correct narrative.

Sort of like when some blonde white girl gets kidnapped; you hear all about it. But if some poor black girl gets kidnapped, she disappears without a peep.

Kind of like rape in Britain; it depends on who does the rape if it gets reported by the press or if the police investigate. Certain people get a pass.

Now certain people will call me a racist for pointing this out. But please remember who the victims are, who are also ignored. Non-white victims ought not to be ignored just because the crime and/or perpetrators don't fit the politically correct narrative.
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Quickfire



Joined: 24 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Feb Mon 05, 2018 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Max5s said:
I'd be the last one to support much of anything from Trump, but he can't address every topic in the SOU address. There have been many comments pointing out his neglect of various subjects in the speech, and most of those have more long-term significance than school shootings. He has made it pretty clear that he won't support any gun control legislation, and nobody from either House of Congress (Republican or Democrat) has put forth any legislation addressing that type of crime other than gun control. So why would he talk about it???



Yes I hear you Max, but don't you see the irony?
Trump goes to great lengths telling us how bad those immigrants are.........but he won't say a bad word against non immigrants?
During the speech Trump introduced family members of victims of gangs who he claims came illegally into the country..........but by the same token he didn't introduce any family victims of the 2 biggest mass shootings.
As for solutions.........well Trump always says these mass shooters were mentally ill or sick.........but again offered no proposals about how to tackle mental illness of this kind.
It's pretty clear Trump doesn't want tp talk about deaths caused by mass shootings........but he's very keen to talk about deaths caused by immigrants or by radical Islamic terror.

So Max don't you believe it......Trump and Miller are well capable of talking about lots of things in the State of the Union........just as long as it suits their agenda, regardless of whether they are "important" topics or not.confused
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Max5s



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PostPosted: Feb Mon 05, 2018 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quickfire said:

So Max don't you believe it......Trump and Miller are well capable of talking about lots of things in the State of the Union........just as long as it suits their agenda, regardless of whether they are "important" topics or not.confused


I don't think we disagree on this point. Given his position on the issue, the failure to address school shootings/mass shootings was not surprising. It's not important to him at the moment. It is not an issue I would put in a SOU address either, but that is a different argument. Far more important are issues such as North Korea, the influence of foreign countries on our elections, our trade relations with China, education, health insurance and the inability for our 2 major parties to find common ground on any issue. School shootings are pretty low on the list of issues that directly do or could influence all of us. It is an issue I would address, but not in the SOU message.
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Foxx



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PostPosted: Feb Tue 06, 2018 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ric delCampo said:
It did make the headlines.

The ones that don't make the headlines are the ones that don't involve white kids. I suppose because they don't fit the current politically correct narrative.

Sort of like when some blonde white girl gets kidnapped; you hear all about it. But if some poor black girl gets kidnapped, she disappears without a peep.

Kind of like rape in Britain; it depends on who does the rape if it gets reported by the press or if the police investigate. Certain people get a pass.

Now certain people will call me a racist for pointing this out. But please remember who the victims are, who are also ignored. Non-white victims ought not to be ignored just because the crime and/or perpetrators don't fit the politically correct narrative.


True, but while that is the case, I think it's also a case of it happening so much that it's not as shocking, thus less news worthy. Although still think a 24 hour news channel would be able to cover it. Not like they aren't already digging under the bottom of the barrel for stories.
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Quickfire



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PostPosted: Feb Tue 06, 2018 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Max5s said:
Far more important are issues such as North Korea, the influence of foreign countries on our elections, our trade relations with China, education, health insurance and the inability for our 2 major parties to find common ground on any issue. School shootings are pretty low on the list of issues that directly do or could influence all of us. It is an issue I would address, but not in the SOU message.


I guess everyone will have differences of opinion on what would be deemed "worthy" or important enough topics to address in a State of the Union address.
I'm not sure immigration or even radical Islamic terror are currently that big an issue either......certainly not the huge issues that Trump and Miller make them out to be.
I'm not really sure that N.Korea is such a big issue either.
Even Condoleezza Rice thinks that Kim, far from the trigger happy lunatic Trump makes him out to be, is quite tactically smart.
Kim is not about to launch a nuclear attack on the USA.
Practically all the experts who have first hand knowledge of dealing with North Korea have said as much........Kim wants nuclear weapons to ensure he isn't attacked by the West.
After what happened to Saddam Hussein and Ghadaffi who can really blame Kim for this mindset?

The situation in North Korea is actually more perilous now because of Trump rather than Kim.
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Max5s



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PostPosted: Feb Tue 06, 2018 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quickfire said:
The situation in North Korea is actually more perilous now because of Trump rather than Kim.


Indeed it is. President "Bone Spurs" is definitely a bigger concern.
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Geno



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PostPosted: Feb Tue 06, 2018 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


Oprah Winfrey
If you think this excuse for a woman
is will make a better President Than
Donald Trump then vote for her!


If you guys (Americans only) are going to vote for Oprah Winfrey if she runs, then go right ahead. Stop dawging President Trump. All of you guys and fake predictions that he would be gone just a few months after being the duly elected President of the United State, have fallen through and he is still going on strong. Some of you thought Mike Pence would be President by now. A man that has no where near the strength and resilience of Donald Trump. Pence is still the Vice President.

If you think that 3 Billion Dollar rotten to the core atheist, fat, slobbering, man hating Winfrey will make a better president, then vote for her if she runs, and leave The President the United States alone!

If the President ever proposes new restrictions on Second Amendment guns rights in addition to the 20,000 gun laws already on the books, he will ever use the famous Left method for doing it...which is to propose gun restrictions after a major incident like The Las Vegas shooting.

It called Panic Gun Laws, when you pass law right after an incident, and The president nor men and women like me, will not fall for it either.

Geno
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xj900



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PostPosted: Feb Wed 07, 2018 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Over here we call them 'Knee Jerk Laws', where after some disaster, or sudden jump in media attention our Parliament wakes up and quickly passes a piece of emergency legislation that hasn't been properly debated or thought through, and which often has far-reaching implications for people it was never intended to affect...
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Foxx



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PostPosted: Feb Wed 07, 2018 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geno,

why would anyone vote for Oprah Winfrey when she said she isn't going to run? Would be kind of weird to do that. Not unprecedented, but still odd to vote for someone not actually running. But let's break down how you feel about her.


"3 Billion Dollar rotten to the core atheist, fat, slobbering, man hating Winfrey"

3 billon dollar - you've already elected a billionaire president, and look how that turned out.

rotten to the core - I'm kind of curious where this comes from. Her promoting dr. Phil? Her anti-sexism? what exactly is rotten, and as a follow up, what about whatever-that-is makes you think it extends to her core?

fat - fair enough, she does seem to be on the heavy side. But that also applies to the current president. Also, how is that relevant to anything?

slobbering - I admit I haven't watched any of her shows, but can't recall seeing her slobber in any of the clips or pictures I have seen. Perhaps you could provide some evidence, or is this like when you said Michelle Obama was transgender about a year ago? Where you're basically just making up random sh*t to call people you don't like.

man hating - I guess if you mean that men shouldn't sexually abuse or harrass women as man hating, then.. sure, but by that standard i'm a man hating man, and pretty sure you'd fall under that definition as well my friend.

"leave The President the United States alone!"

First, thank you... I needed a laugh today. Maybe it's what came before, maybe it's the exclamation point, maybe it's the fact I'm a geek who retains random information for when I get into trivia games.. but my brain went to that youtube video from years back "leave Brittany alone!" and the fanboy crying under the covers.

Second, no. The PotUS doesn't get any free passes from critics. Especially not because some people have mentioned a celebrity they would like to run, dispite that celebrity having said they don't want to.

Finally, while several predicted that the president would be impeached before the end of his term, and he hasn't been yet. But there's still time left before that becomes false. Then again, I had also predicted that Alabama would elect a pedophile who said that the last time America was great was when they had slaves.. over a democrat, and they - barely - proved me wrong on that one. Actually lost money on that one too.

Although I'll agree that panicy laws of any kind are usually disasters. From panicy immigration laws, to panicy terrorism laws, to - yes - panicy gun laws. Laws that have had time to be well thought out are always better. Although I seriously doubt their are anywhere close to literally 20,000 laws on guns.
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Geno



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PostPosted: Feb Thu 08, 2018 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Foxx you couldn't vote for Oprah Winfrey and my post clearly says IF" she ran.

Max may be horribly wrong about our President but you can ask him this much. It is well known in America that there are more than 20,000 gun laws on the books of the 50 states. Some are good laws, like right to carry a conceal weapon and NO state secondary school or University can pass a policy prohibiting that. Other laws are just plain stupid like these..Every thing from storage of Ammo to restriction of using a gun with in 1,000 feet of school. With all those laws on the books it does nothing to stop the killer who can kill you with any weapon, including a gun.

You wonder why there are so many shootings at schools. It does not surprise me. My neighbor has a bumper stick on his truck that sums it up about Schools being so called "Gun-free zones"

Gun Free Zones are Sitting Duck Zones

Geno
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Quickfire



Joined: 24 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Feb Thu 08, 2018 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geno said:

You wonder why there are so many shootings at schools. It does not surprise me. My neighbor has a bumper stick on his truck that sums it up about Schools being so called "Gun-free zones"

Gun Free Zones are Sitting Duck Zones

Geno


......except that most first world countries are gun free zones..........and they don't have routinely have school shootings......unlike the USA.
and in the absence of guns as a weapon, they don't have school bombings either,

How do you explain that Geno?
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Geno



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PostPosted: Feb Thu 08, 2018 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are wrong to say it does not occur in other countries. It just that you forget. In 2009 a teenage gun opened fire on 3 classroom killing mostly student and teachers. Killing a total of 15 people. He killed two more ..then himself before police moved in him. That occurred in Germany!

In 2008 a gunman in Finland open fire on a classroom and killed 10 people.

Just LAST year in a Gun free zone (sitting duck zone).,,in a large Egyptian Church ( a gun free zone) gunmen bursts in on them as they were praying and killed about 305 worshipers! Quickfire just try and repeat kind of shooting in an Israeli Church which is not NOT A SITTING Duck Zone.

Being killed in a mass shooting barely registered a fraction of 1/10th 0f a percent. More like 1/10th of a percent per 100,000 people. Because the United States has a much bigger population...killing by "killers that use guns in mass shooting are higher percentage wise is higher 3 countries because of their smaller population.

Quickfire you love to trivialize the death numbers, plus you assign a lessor value to a person's life if they are killed with knife, baseball bat, strangle, or even beaten to death. If you mother was killed with a knife you are going tell me so what? it took more effort to thrust the knife into her than to blow her head off.

I am not worried about being killed in a rare mass shooting. It the young punk on the street or breaking into my home that is more likely to be someone I will have to shoot down.

This is America and we have a very unsavory element of killers and crooks. The Second Amendment allows us to protect ourselves. It would be like going to the ditches of World War 2 and finding the British fighting the Germans and telling the Englanders...turn in all your guns!

Geno
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last-aki22



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PostPosted: Feb Fri 09, 2018 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two dead and seventeen injured. Considering the attacker was apprehended before he could cause further damage, it would have been a lot worse.

On a semi-related subject, I arrived home from work about an hour ago. If I had arrived an hour earlier I would have witnessed an armed hold up at the ATM around the corner from my home.

Also, last week Monday a gunstore in Melbourne was held up with armed criminals. At least 50 firearms were stolen, thirty-seven of them were handguns.

Suspects have since been arrested and police believe that all stolen weapons have been recovered.

Honestly, Australia needs to improve on laws on self-defence laws because they currently suck.
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smudger



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PostPosted: Feb Fri 09, 2018 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the fact that you have to go back years to give examples of mass shootings in Europe says it all, Geno. Because other countries when they have this problem actually take steps to prevent it from happening again. The last mass shooting in Britain was over 20 years ago. We weren't prepared to tolerate having our kids mown down by some lunatic who had somehow been given a firearm permit, so we banned handguns. It hasn't happened since. Sure I was a bit miffed when I had to hand mine in but I recognised that it was the only way forward.

I appreciate America is a very different place as there are as many guns as there are people and that sort of control simply cannot be imposed.

But please do not suggest that you are "safer" in a situation where everybody and their mentally ill cousin has a gun. 10,000+ firearm homicides a year tells its own story. The "safety" is entirely illusory. That punk who breaks into your house, or robs you on the street, is going to know you may be armed and will get the first shot in.

You complain about your Police shooting unarmed people but it is against the background that your Police presume anyone that they apprehend could be armed and sometimes take no chances which results in an unarmed citizen being killed. In our land without guns, the great majority of our police do not carry firearms and it is only specialist squads that are authorised to do so. That is why the numbers killed by Police in America run into thousands whereas here it is zero, one, or two a year, terrorist attacks excluded.

So fine, keep your Second Amendment (which was actually intended as self defence against invading foreign soldiers) but accept that large numbers will die as a result. It is the inevitable price you pay, so if you are happy to accept it there is no need for change.
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Max5s



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PostPosted: Feb Fri 09, 2018 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geno said:

Max may be horribly wrong about our President but you can ask him this much. It is well known in America that there are more than 20,000 gun laws on the books of the 50 states.


I think my only error about Trump was my belief that he would be impeached by now.

You are correct in stating that there are over 20,000 state and federal laws pertaining to guns. A significant portion of those laws are state laws mirroring the federal laws so that they can be prosecuted in local courts. Irregardless, few of the mass shootings occurred without at least one firearms law being broken before the first shot was fired. IMHO, short of all out confiscation, there isn't much that a new law would improve. Confiscation would not be an acceptable option at this time in the USA.
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Max5s



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PostPosted: Feb Fri 09, 2018 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

smudger said:

I appreciate America is a very different place as there are as many guns as there are people and that sort of control simply cannot be imposed.


Yes. We are a different place. We place a very strong emphasis on individual rights (the first 9 amendments in our Bill of Rights focus on individuals' rights to be free of oppression/suppression by our government). We tend to take the position that rights should not be taken away from those who follow the rules and that individuals are responsible for their actions. So if you use a gun, YOU get punished rather than you AND every other gun owner.
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Quickfire



Joined: 24 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Feb Fri 09, 2018 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geno said:
You are wrong to say it does not occur in other countries.


Actually Geno, I did NOT say it does not occur in other countries, read my post again.

I used the word "routinely".

The USA has school shootings on a frequent basis, that sadly it has become rather routine.
Other countries whilst not immune from school shootings, do not have them on a routine regular basis.
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Foxx



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PostPosted: Feb Sat 10, 2018 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geno said:
Foxx you couldn't vote for Oprah Winfrey and my post clearly says IF" she ran.

You wonder why there are so many shootings at schools. It does not surprise me. My neighbor has a bumper stick on his truck that sums it up about Schools being so called "Gun-free zones"

Gun Free Zones are Sitting Duck Zones

Geno


Where did I said I would? It'd be a terrible idea. I mean, why would anyone vote for a celebrity billionaire who has no political experience? That's not just asking, but demanding trouble show up. Although as for the IF, people could still do write ins.

As for the gun bit.. I guess that would make each and every single Canadian school a sitting duck zone. Which, if that law preventing banning of guns on schools you mentioned is true, would mean that "Sitting Duck" zones are way safer than non-"Sitting Duck" zones. From both a pure number perspective or a percentage perspective. (for the record, 15 deaths in schools from shootings since 1990 (as of my typing this, and hopefully quite a bit into the future))

Although that bumper sticker does remind me of one of the proposed "solutions" that was considered in Ingleside, Texas shortly after Columbine (where I went to high school (Ingleside, not Columbine)). "Have everyone bring a gun, that way if someone starts shooting, you can check the hallway for the bad guy and shoot back." Apparently oblivious to if someone from a different class was slower at checking the hall, they'd see that kid shooting down the other, and think he was the shooter, creating a chain reaction of slaughter. Alongside other incredibly idiotic suggestions like "put the 10 commandments infront of the school, that way the would-be-killer would see them and know it's against what God wants." and (what they actually went with.. happily starting after the year I graduated) "ban the color black from cloths" (because the Columbine killers apparently wore all black.)
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Geno



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PostPosted: Feb Mon 12, 2018 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smudger --- I want thank for keeping an open mind and acknowledging that United States is more violent than other countries like Iceland, Switzerland, or Singapore. That's why our day to day 2nd Amendment rights are more important than waiting for the the next hit on a school in a Gun free ("sitting duck zone"). You must always remember the United States is different, we need our guns just like the British did in World War 2.

Smudger I will always complain about the trigger happy cowardly cop who is too quick to use his gun, and when he does shoot, he tries for overkill by shooting the suspect 10 or 15 times. Police have a job to do but they are our taxed paid representatives and servers, so yes we need, and do POLICE the police.

That's why former South Carolina Cop Michael Slager is going to spend the next 20 years in rotting in federal prison for shooting an unarmed black motorist in the back 8 times and killing him. He murderously missed use his gun.

Last Aki--- I hear you loud and clear. It does not matter if you have a lower crime rate in your area. If they are going to hurt or rob you at an ATM, that is the only thing that matters. I hope your government realizes that, and allows you protect yourself without interference from them someday soon!.

.


Quickfire There you are sitting in your chair monitoring your ultra liberal news media sources, waiting for a few people to be shot to death in some sitting duck school zone in America. In meantime law abiding citizens are using their guns to protect themselves against thugs on the streets and criminals invading their homes.

You are not watching the hunting lodges, citizen gun clubs, police stations, or the armed neighborhoods of Wyoming USA, for the next shooter, Quickfire. The reason you don't watch those locations for the next shooting, is because you know good and well those places I just named are NOT sitting duck zones. If the next school is a school in Chicago and it gets hit, it won't affect me. I am much more worried about scum trying to break through my window at night.

People with concealed gun permits have very good records when they go through the training. It does not mean give a gun to everyone. These permit holders do not shoot their wives and get into macho gun battles on the street. They know what they carry and are very conservative above using it as a last resort and avoiding petty arguments.

The biggest group of gun permit holders that get in trouble with the law happen when they bring their guns in places that don't allow it. Like some stupid universities , court rooms, or forgetting to take it out of their luggage when trying to board a commercial flight. You just don't want to understand Foxx.

Geno.
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Foxx



Joined: 08 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Feb Tue 13, 2018 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What don't I want to understand?

That the U.S. has a national gun fetish? I'm fully aware of that. I know full well that universal background checks aren't going to be a reality. I know full well that outside of a major shift in views that gun laws, by and large, won't change. No ones going to take people's guns away. No one is going to stop some people from hording massive stockpiles of guns.

I understand full well that cars need to be registered, and that guns never will. I fully understand that these mass killings will just happen over, and over, and over, and over, and over again, until they become so common place that it's barely even news. I personally think it's not a coincidence that it happens in countries that are more armed, but I could be wrong, and it may be merely a coincidence.

Unless you're referring to the fear of armed Americans breaking into your homes. Or if your referring to the belief that Americans are just somehow more prone to crime than citizens of other countries. I mean, could look at the wealth inequality as an obvious source for that second bit, but that's a different topic entirely.

So, if you're talking about me not understanding the fear, than... yeah, you are 100% correct. I simply do not understand the thought of some random person breaking into a home with the intent of causing me or family injury or death as being anything other than paranoia.
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