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Bullet wound FX

 
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slasher



Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 134
Location: eastern canada

PostPosted: Feb Mon 16, 2009 9:39 pm    Post subject: Bullet wound FX Reply with quote

Just inquiring how producers make bullet wounds or would it be from small caliber paint ball or more hollywood FX like setting small charges or digital images?
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Bakerboy



Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 231

PostPosted: Feb Tue 17, 2009 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I colored liquid is placed in a condom, and mounted on a small plate with a small powder charge and wired to a battery. This gets taped on the body. Any clothing gets slightly pre cut so that the "blood" sprays out. Then wires leading to the batery get hooked up... and voila bang. For machine guns shooting, mutiple condoms get hooked up. Like in here:

http://www.boundheat.com/new/dakota_bound/movie_preview.html

For hits on metal a "zirk" is used. A small plastic ball fired with an air gun. Upon impact it sparks. Also, same plastic balls are used (containing dust) for hits on a softer targets like earth. For specific hits on objects like walls etc. where actors are "in the line of fire", charges get actually drilled into such object and masked by props and then fired by the pyro man. That is safer then shooting an air gun.

All of these are seen in the above clip.

After all is "said and done" it is special effect make up personel who creates the wound using latex and other goodies. Digital effcts are only used as an enhancement if the wound needs to "heal" on camera or if some other movement is required.
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JohnM



Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 3287
Location: USA

PostPosted: Feb Tue 17, 2009 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the US, and "squib" effect must be done by a licensed effects technician. Besides being illegal to use charge-based squibs without a tech, it is dangerous to try even under the best circumstances. Even with a protective plate, cases of actors in amateur productions being injured has occurred.

As a substitute to that effect there is the tried and true spray pump/hose method. Details can be found all over the web. The smoke portion, absent because explosives are not used can easily be added in post.

However, the squib-type effects in general look a bit fake--but cool. Most rely on the visual effect of gobs of blood spraying outward in impact, which, of course goes against the physics of a bullet hit.

When an actor has a lot of clothing on, these effects work better for the camera.

For fetish movies, digital effects are more realistic since the wound is usually appearing on nude skin or thin clothing. They are also safer. Liability insurance will not cover much more then a photo studio type environment. Filling out an accident report for burn marks and shrapnel to the eye would probably not be covered. Very Happy

Samples

Through Clothing: http://pkfstudios.com/videos/s_robbery_efx.mpg

Through Clothing with some squib-like digital effects on bullet exit: http://pkfstudios.com/videos/diamonds_death_efx.mpg

Here is a sample trailer that has some samples of shots on skin (warning, explicit content): http://pkfstudios.com/videos/naughty_trailer.wmv (you need to right-click and download to your HD)

There are many styles that can be done digitally as well. For instance, on a front hit--which is the hole that appears, a mist of blood can be added behind the subject to imply an exit path. In some head shots, chunks of gore can be seen exiting the subject. All this is combined with live effects to create the overall shot.

Thanks,
JohnM
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Pennpaul



Joined: 01 Jan 2009
Posts: 1726
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Feb Tue 17, 2009 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I depend upon digital f/x as it is much safer and can be more dramatic. I have learned a lot from DrDon

During filming I apply body blood only. Later during editing, the digital effects are added.

Several methods are used to simulate bullet and knife wounds. plastic type wounds can be applied but most of the models I use are allergic to the adhesives. So I use a masquera pencil for a black dot and apply stage blood and gel over it. Digital manipulation can make the timing work.

As a side note, Hollywood and TV use the same airsoft guns I use for their scenes and then apply digital effects. They can afford the squibs on their actors.

I don't use BB's or pellets of any kind. An accident can be costly.


4p
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JohnM



Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 3287
Location: USA

PostPosted: Feb Tue 17, 2009 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was strange path to the effects I use today. When I first started in 1997, there was no digital effect option. WAVE was using a technique where they would have the actress where a red shirt underneath another shirt. They would cut little holes in that shirt and hook fishing line to the cut out fabric peices then loosely reattach them. On action, someone would pull off the fabric pieces and wallah--a red dot would appear.

When I was with RueMorgue, we did this a couple times, but it was complicated to time well. Also, I was working with horrible editing software at the time.

Later, Dr. Don came and shared his technique with many producers. I remember the recipe--something about Jelly and an air hose. At the time, I was just getting comfortable with computer based editing and was not about to figure out how to rotoscope. So, we did it my way....fire the gun, cut to the hit. A while later, another guy came to our shoot and helped direct a movie called "No Trespassing". He set it up so he could apply digital effects later. He was not familiar with Dr.Don, so he method was kinda what I ended up learning and still use today. In fact, I still use the same clunky rotoscoping program that he introduced me to way back when in lieu of my pristine copies of Shake and After Effects.

I guess it comes down to do what looks good and do what your comfortable with. You can always improve upon your technique. You can always see what others are doing, and try it out for yourself. Digital combined with make up effects really gives everyone from amateurs to professionals a great tool to make great-looking bullet effects.

Now, if only I had the patience to do knives. Very Happy

JohnM
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Dr. Don



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 739
Location: Fascists Repulic of Canukistan

PostPosted: Feb Tue 17, 2009 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should note that squibs don't work well on bare flesh.

I used brown grocery bag paper spray painted with crimson red paint. When it was dry I would tear out small pieces and try to get them as round as possible....then use a glue stick to stick them onto the model....then gloss them over with some of my own brew of fake blood made from raspberry jamb and finger paint....LOL. Keep the bullet hole nice and neat for the initial impact scene, have the actress do her reaction, then edit out the bullet hole for...say 10 to 15 frames(sometimes a hundred frames....outch!!! Lots of work) and then add the bullet streak, some flesh rippling and blood spray at the precise point that the model reacts to the imagined slug hitting her.
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JohnM



Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 3287
Location: USA

PostPosted: Feb Tue 17, 2009 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr. Don said:
I should note that squibs don't work well on bare flesh.

I used brown grocery bag paper spray painted with crimson red paint. When it was dry I would tear out small pieces and try to get them as round as possible....then use a glue stick to stick them onto the model....then gloss them over with some of my own brew of fake blood made from raspberry jamb and finger paint....LOL. Keep the bullet hole nice and neat for the initial impact scene, have the actress do her reaction, then edit out the bullet hole for...say 10 to 15 frames(sometimes a hundred frames....outch!!! Lots of work) and then add the bullet streak, some flesh rippling and blood spray at the precise point that the model reacts to the imagined slug hitting her.


There were times when I was with Ruemorgue that I would not shoot the content, but be doing the edit. In this case, the bullet drip was already there, so I had to back erase it so it would animate down. That sucked.

I saw you did bullet time effects for that Misty Mundae, Tina Kruse edit you did. Awesome. Now someone has a plug in for it. Have you checked out http://www.videocopilot.net/ there are 60 or so tutorials that are pretty good.

Later,
JohnM
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Bakerboy



Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 231

PostPosted: Feb Wed 18, 2009 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
In the US, and "squib" effect must be done by a licensed effects technician. Besides being illegal to use charge-based squibs without a tech, it is dangerous to try even under the best circumstances. Even with a protective plate, cases of actors in amateur productions being injured has occurred.


I was of course ONLY refering to "Hollywood" fimmaking. Under no cirumstances am I suggesting to use these on "non Hollywood" productions. Indeed without a professional pyro man, doing the effects I have described is a recepie for a disaster.

Also correct statement is that "squibbs" do NOT work on a nude ( or scantily dressed) body as all the wires and other "gack" would be visible.
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JohnM



Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 3287
Location: USA

PostPosted: Feb Wed 18, 2009 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bakerboy said:
Quote:
In the US, and "squib" effect must be done by a licensed effects technician. Besides being illegal to use charge-based squibs without a tech, it is dangerous to try even under the best circumstances. Even with a protective plate, cases of actors in amateur productions being injured has occurred.


I was of course ONLY refering to "Hollywood" fimmaking. Under no cirumstances am I suggesting to use these on "non Hollywood" productions. Indeed without a professional pyro man, doing the effects I have described is a recepie for a disaster.

Also correct statement is that "squibbs" do NOT work on a nude ( or scantily dressed) body as all the wires and other "gack" would be visible.


I understood what you meant--sorry I did not address that. I am all about safety and just wanted to put out that clarification. There is actually a fetish producer that uses explosive squibbs: http://nicheclips.com/shop.php?store_id=91, though I am not sure they have any of those up now.

JohnM
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Bakerboy



Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 231

PostPosted: Feb Fri 20, 2009 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

2kissing
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nelson



Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 20

PostPosted: May Thu 07, 2009 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have posted elsewhere here about the "believability factor" lacking in many of the productions. I do agree however that a safety of the models MUST be paramount. To me it is more about acting then doing.
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riter



Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 295
Location: Midwest

PostPosted: May Thu 07, 2009 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, John, for the video effects tutorials.
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arkansas_guy



Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Posts: 99

PostPosted: May Fri 08, 2009 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you guys use higher-quality Airsoft guns as the props?
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arkansas_guy



Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Posts: 99

PostPosted: May Fri 08, 2009 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And from your trailer, JohnM, what vid is that shooting from at :20?
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JohnM



Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 3287
Location: USA

PostPosted: May Fri 08, 2009 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

arkansas_guy said:
And from your trailer, JohnM, what vid is that shooting from at :20?


That is from "Deadly Phone Sex".

Available at TPAP:
http://www.the-progressive-art-project.com/guest.php?fa=21&v=5793
or at my PKF Niceclips Store: http://nicheclips.com/shop.php?store_id=57

Thanks,
JohnM
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JohnM



Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 3287
Location: USA

PostPosted: May Fri 08, 2009 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

arkansas_guy said:
Do you guys use higher-quality Airsoft guns as the props?


I tend to buy the really nice "blowback" Airsofts when I can afford them. They are metal, weighted to feel like a real gun, and don't make annoying rattling sounds like cheaper plastic models. I also have "movie" guns, which essentially are real guns, but with plugged barrels and designed to take 8 or 9mm blank rounds. I don't fire them, I just like how they look with close up shots, especially if the gun has engravings.

Thanks,
JohnM
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arkansas_guy



Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Posts: 99

PostPosted: May Fri 08, 2009 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah blowbacks are badass, I have this one:

http://airsoftatlanta.com/images/M11A1_jpg.jpg

it's a bit bulky though, I want a normal pistol like a beretta 9mm type replica. Sounds viscous on full auto mode though, belting out BB's so fast it just sounds like "brraaaaaaaaaaaaaaap *click*" then you reload lol...literally lasts maybe 5 seconds max.
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Moon Shiner



Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Posts: 1940
Location: Hills Of Kentucky

PostPosted: May Sat 09, 2009 12:05 am    Post subject: How About An Aplet? Reply with quote

I am not a film editor, but I did write programs, and it seems to me that an aplet could be written by a knowledgable C programmer that could do this work for you. By inputing variables as to location on the frame, size skin color, and with a reference point, such as a belly button, or any point on the body or clothing, the effect could be propergated thru as many frames of the video as nI'm surprised this sort of aplet is not out there some place.eeded.
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arkansas_guy



Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Posts: 99

PostPosted: May Sun 10, 2009 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's another cool Special FX tool (knife) that could also be great for some roleplay for those lucky enough to have a woman who enjoys it lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I32plf2M4HA

that think seriously looks real!
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JohnM



Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 3287
Location: USA

PostPosted: May Tue 12, 2009 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

arkansas_guy said:
Here's another cool Special FX tool (knife) that could also be great for some roleplay for those lucky enough to have a woman who enjoys it lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I32plf2M4HA

that think seriously looks real!


$2400, kinda spendy.

JohnM
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JohnM



Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 3287
Location: USA

PostPosted: May Tue 12, 2009 12:47 am    Post subject: Re: How About An Aplet? Reply with quote

Moon Shiner said:
I am not a film editor, but I did write programs, and it seems to me that an aplet could be written by a knowledgable C programmer that could do this work for you. By inputing variables as to location on the frame, size skin color, and with a reference point, such as a belly button, or any point on the body or clothing, the effect could be propergated thru as many frames of the video as nI'm surprised this sort of aplet is not out there some place.eeded.


Someone could design a plugin with a "dropper" tool and "feather" to match skin color and edge blend. But, you would need a reference dot on the subject at the time of shooting so you could motion track it to the source. Still, more then 60-70 frames and it might be noticeable--especially of the body turns slightly on impact and/or there are lighting inconsistencies.

JohnM
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Pennpaul



Joined: 01 Jan 2009
Posts: 1726
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: May Thu 14, 2009 1:05 pm    Post subject: Choice of weaponry Reply with quote

Yep, two ends to the wound f/x. The shooter and the victim.

Realism may be achieved when the two are separated. But the shooter needs realism if appearing closeup or in the same frame.

I tried the spring airsofts. They have been relegated to gun bags and background scenes. I tried AEG guns. Yep clacky, rattly and non-realistic blowback.

I tried gas non-blowback. Small spy pistols with silencers are ok. Larger pistols don't make the grade.

Slowly I have graduated to full metal blow-backs. There is a huge variety at various prices. M9 Beretta's, H&K, Glock, M1911, Hicapa and Babycapa, plus many more. Gas is green gas or co2

I was buying from Ebay. I happened upon a discount store from which I have bought reasonably priced weapons, sniper scopes, sniper rifles and KAR-98 mausers.

The nice thing about this store is their boneyard. Items returned for various reasons including non-functional. I picked up a M9 Beretta (value $150) for $44. All it needed was to reset the trigger spring. It works perfectly.

Those that work but don't shoot BB's are perfect for video work.

I have been searching on and off for the past three years.

And blood work is actually easier using computer graphic effects.

4P
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